countless links in this thread that show the lies behind josh and fentons claim that there is no such thing as chemtrails.

as easily debunked as their claim that a plane hit the pentagon ( josh claims he never said a plane hit the pentagon, but he doesnt say one didnt..  pussy )

they will lie straight to your face with no compulsion

fenton and josh pretend there has been no evidence presented to counter their BS that because contrails may persiste, under rare, specific weather conditions ( looks like those rare condidtions are happening again over my place today ) that means there is no such thing as chemtrails.

heres some of that evidence again,
http://www.globalresearch.ca/search?q=chemtrails

just to remind them, they have NO evidence there is no such thing as chemtrails. just like they have no evidence a plane hit the pentagon on 9/11.

obviously they just like saying things they have no proof of.  liars

mtyrtrd/Andrew Adams/Skywatcher wrote:

“they have NO evidence there is no such thing as chemtrails.”

Backwards again - and it’s not just me who is saying that. Are you not aware that this is a well-known logical fallacy?

Proving Non-Existence

Description: Demanding that one proves the non-existence of something in place for providing adequate evidence for the existence of that something.  Although it may be possible to prove non-existence in special situations, such as showing that a container does not contain certain items, one cannot prove universal or absolute non-existence.  The proof of existence must come from those who make the claims.

Annother summary by Dr. Philip A. Pecorino, Professor of Philosophy:

The source of the fallacy is the assumption that something is true unless proven otherwise.

Apart from that: linking to random web sites is not evidence.

At least point to specifics, preferably to those which are suitable to convince a contrail researcher that there is something unusual going on with persisting or spreading contrails.

dipsticks josh and fenton.. youre the ones saying there is no such thing as chemtrails.

prove it. - you cant, so admit it. there are such things as chemtrails, they do exist, the evidence has been posted here ad nauseam. they have the methods and the means, its not a bloody secret, youd have to be an imbecile to pretend what youre pretending.

just like you have no evidence for flight 77 hitting the pentagon. you really should say shit unless you can back it up moron

people all over the world know about chemtrails..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoLwclSjaro

there is plenty of evidence. josh and fenton just say ... no no no no no…

they offer NOTHING!

Leonard Clampett wrote about me:
“As an amateur he claims to be more informed than I, as a professional”
As I have said several times before - credentials are irrelevant if you don’t get your facts straight. You still have not issued any comments regarding your earlier claims after I have refuted them.
Did you change your stance on supersaturation with respect to ice?
Does it exist and is it a commonly occurring phenomenon as atmospheric science says?
Does one tonne of jet fuel generate roughly 1.3 tonnes of water when combusted?
Isn’t it basic chemistry that burning of any hydrocarbon fuel creates water?
Have you accepted that you can’t determine the altitude of a contrail just by using your stereoscopic view?
By Josh on 2014 12 30 - 08:22:05

Credentials from scientists therefore cannot be relevant if you don’t believe their facts are correct. Is that correct Joshnonymous? Who is the arbiter?
You have never refuted any claims you have simply disagreed with them. You are not right simply because you think you are.
Saturation of a parcel of air is when cloud forms. You can see this occurring in the sky above you on most days. Saturation of a parcel of air is 100% moisture when the temperature is at dew point. Supersaturation in clear air can occur when the water in exhaust emissions from an aircraft at altitude, in the right ambient conditions, condense after being turned to gas in the high temperatures in the can (combustion chamber). When this condensate is left to its own devices it takes up the temperature of the surrounding air and evaporates as the water content fuses into the surrounding drier air. This can take a few minutes but certainly not linger and become cloud as you claim. Otherwise we need just fly a few aircraft around to make cloud and dispense with droughts. That has been tried and does not work for obvious scientific reasons. If the surrounding air was saturated their would be cloud already. The difference between contrails that disappear within a kilometre or two behind an aircraft and those that remain for many minutes is caused by the variance in the humidity. You never see the contrails emitted in cloud do you? Meteorology 101. You get to understand all this in the senior examination studies but not in the hobby pilot exams.
The burning of carbon based fuels does not create water, the water is there all the time, and the aircraft does not carry 1.3 times its fuel load into the upper atmosphere. Weight and balance tables will tell you that. Load data sheets tell you that. The operations crew who load and fuel the aircraft will tell you that. The pilots know that because they do not take off overweight, otherwise their TOLD cards would be wrong every time. The extra water comes from the air masses that are compressed by the engines as they fly through the air masses.
If you cannot tell the difference in altitude between an aircraft flying at 30,000 feet and one at 15,000 feet you should really see an optometrist, or better still an ophthalmologist, the ones I see every year to have my eyes thoroughly checked in accordance with the legislation so provided.
Have a good day.

Leonard Clampett wrote:

“You have never refuted any claims you have simply disagreed with them.”

Are you saying you have not checked the references I provided?

“Saturation of a parcel of air is 100% moisture when the temperature is at dew point”

Again you are ignoring saturation with respect to ice which is not the same as saturation with respect to water. You want to look at the frost point, not the dew point.

Supersaturation with respect to ice can be reached at RH levels of 70 percent and less. Have a look at this table - are you saying it’s wrong?

“The burning of carbon based fuels does not create water, the water is there all the time”

You are leaving the ground of school-grade chemistry. I have already provided you twice with the chemical equation for kerosene combustion in a jet engine.

For the third time:

2 * C12H26 + 37 * O2—-> 24 * CO2 + 26 * H2O

By the way, here is the benzene combustion in your car - every time the engine runs it creates water:

2 * C6H6 + 15 * O2—-> 12 * CO2 + 6 * H2O

In case you did not notice, the H2O molecules are water. Which is newly created by the combustion.
Again, not my invention, it’s basic chemistry. If you’re saying these equations are wrong, then where are your’s?

“If you cannot tell the difference in altitude between an aircraft flying at 30,000 feet and one at 15,000 feet you should really see an optometrist”

That’s not what you have claimed. You described a contrail at around 10 degrees above the horizon and said you determined the altitude to be 10000 feet - with your bare eyes. You did not mention any plane.

Here is what you wrote:

“[...] I took 4 [photographs] today at midday showing two distinct chemtrails at about 10,000 feet near our home at Enoggera near Brisbane, which were about 2,000 feet above some scattered fair weather cumulus cloud”

I had provided a reference to a scientific study that determined the maximum distance for stereo viewing at 160 meters. I won’t quote it again, it’s all on the previous page.

Bottom line is that you have not shown how you could determine the altitude of these contrails as 10000 ft with your bare eyes. Do you know of any other pilot who would believe you?

Link to freeze point table is broken by comment formatting. Paste the whole next line to browser:

dimitrxe.pp.fi/pub/pol/chem/pages/Persistent Contrail.html

it appears from this picture

that the specific, RARE, ( i say rare because that is what was said in an article posted by josh anonymous himself ) atmospheric conditions for contrails to persist… actually must in reality, occur all over the world, all the bloody time!

josh and fenton are liars. simple as that.

aewt/Andrew Adams/Skywatcher,

the image you posted was taken from this original NASA publication.

Note that it’s an enhanced infrared image, but nevertheless it was a day with many trails in that region (January 29, 2004).

Here is the whole satellite photo (thumbnail) in real color, which provides some perspective about the proportions. Note the cloud band over Florida with the embedded contrails:

The original high-res image (17 MB) is also still available here.

Again, “rare” is a relative term; the actual numbers and the context are more telling.
As the study of R. Sausen and others says (I have referenced it before):

The annual global mean value is 0.09%

(From “A Diagnostic Study of the Global Distribution of Contrails Part I: Present Day Climate”)

Now, the surface area of the Earth is 510 million square kilometers. That means roughly 460 000 square kilometers of pure contrail area - at every moment, excluding all the gaps, and obviously concentrated in areas where there is air traffic.

The central point is that this is the average, so of course there can be local and temporal maxima. Nothing there to make scientists fret about.

josh anonymous thinks his banal obfuscations can dispel any and all concerns regarding atmospheric spraying.
you may believe your bullshit bluff and bluster - but it does nothing to prove your case of no such thing as chemtrails, when that picture is but one of hundreds you will see if you enter chemtrail satellite into a search engine..

you can explain all them away with your unqualified babble - fact is.. if trails require specific rare conditions in oreder to persist, even for a short while.. ie; a few minutes, that doesnt go anywhere near explaining what is shown covering an entire country..  your full of it..  unless you can post evidence of your claim, that there is no such thing as chemtrails, i dont care for anything you have to say, you have proven repeatedly your disposition towards mendacity..

so again.. to put it bluntly.. put up or STFU.

I think the search for answers is pretty obvious now Fenton, it seems most avenues end up in the same place so for you and your followers, I think you are doing a great job, but its time to expose the elephant in the living room, once 9-11, is sorted and the world wars, its pretty much a Rothschild & Israhelli terrorist state purpetrating (ALL) the worlds angst! Imagine no refugees because no wars, MM its like that cure the scource, Breddon O,connell (SPOT ON) mate. Lets support people like this who see the Truth. Here,s to a better world Bring it on !

@ Lachlan - regarding fenton - truth and 9/11..  fenton is a big fat liar.
he says “i think we can all agree a plane hit the pentagon”  - he says this while ignoring all the evidence that proves this to be impossible, while offering only the same regurgitated nonsense as the official conspiracy theory to support his ridiculous assertion.

fenton goes out of his way to misinform, to lie and obfuscate, to censor, twist and manipulate, all evidenced in this very thread.

if you want truth about anything, youre at the wrong url..

Hi Michaela, you are right on that topic undeniable truth a misile hit the Pentagon, I suggest a place where truth seekers could meet, and dis cuss stuff, not like anoymous I think they are usurped by Talmudic scum, but real people finally getting together ! Any suggestions? Once a month not to hard? Whats happening now in Ukraine for instance is more psychopathic war mongering!

@ lachlan,
i didnt say a missile hit the pentagon, what i am saying though, is it is quite obvious it wasnt a 757, and fenton and the rest of the disinfo agents, have absolutely no evidence it was flight 77.

there are countless places to discuss truth - this lady seems to be doing a good job - http://gumshoenews.com/ - she doesnt lie like fenton - but what good does it really do? you know the truth, i know the truth, everyone knows the truth, but main stream media and fenton still lie, and pretend theres no such thing as chemtrails, and that a 757 hit the pentagon.  and they can not back it up with any convincing argument.

you want to make a difference, you need to blow shit up. that is not advice, or a recomendation, simply an opinion that talking wont make a difference. in the meantime however, its not too hard to call out the bullshitters, like fenton, and j.annonymous.. and highlight their mendacity..  while explaining to friends and family the impossibility of a plane hitting the pentagon, the unlikliness of the rare specific atmospheric conditions suitable for persistant contrails to be occurring so often as to be a reasonable explanation for all the observed chemtrails worldwide - they couldnt win a debate even with no counter argument they are so stupid..

its a little bit of fun as well..

I here ya, your suggestion is kinda counter productive thats exactly what they are trying to create! They are the terrorists, Abbott & Bishop should publicly apologise to Putin for a start as undeniable evidence is available for all to see Ukrainians shot Malay aircraft Not Russians! Education is the answer & its growing now, thanks for the site link, check out Justiceforgermans   good one to.Getting tired of paid off shabez goi,s!

abbot and bishop are not the only ones who should apologise.. or face a firing squad.
as far as dishonesty goes with ukraine - its the same for both sides of politics. they can not help but lie. even the greens silence means they are just as guilty, as are all the independents who are too gutless to speak the truth.

but the big lie.. the lie 0f 9/11 that gave us the war of terror, the illegal immoral warmongering that has caused the deaths of millions of innocent men women and children who were never a threat to anyone, and millions more worldwide who have been displaced, maimed, poisoned..  the big lie of 9/11, they wont even speak up about that, even though the impossibilities of the official account are obvious.

impossibilities like a 757 dissappearing into the pentagon.

but here, fenton continues to lie about that as well.  if shooting people for trading drugs in indonesia is acceptable to some, why not shoot the liars who perpetuate the lies that kill millions worlwide?? 

im all for a good discussion -  but a bullet between the eyes.. its the only language these arseholes understand..

josh annonymous says nothing strange going on anywhere, any time.. any how.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/28037509/i-team-chemtrails-open-skies-up-to-debate

it seems the *rare atmospheric conditions required for a contrail to persist, actually seem to occor all over the world, all the bloody time!

*rare - according to a link he posted

kjhggfyf/Andrew Adams/Skywatcher,

you may want to follow your own link reference and watch the actual program on the topic. Good and reasonable stuff:
I-Team:// Part 2: Chemtrails open skies up to debate

I have no idea where you got that statement you attribute to me that “nothing strange going on anywhere, any time.. any how.”
As usual, I don’t expect you are able to quote me.

What I said and what still stands is that there is no evidence of there being something unusual or unexpected with regard to contrails. This is also the position of atmospheric science, globally. If you think that’s wrong, provide proper evidence. Not YT links, not contrail photos.

I also don’t expect you have evidence for your claim that the contrail conditions “actually seem to occor all over the world, all the bloody time”. I have already told you several times that the average contrail coverage was determined to be 0.09 percent of the whole global sky, at every moment. That translates in an area of roughly 460 000 square kilometers of constant full contrail coverage, with no gaps. And of course this is not distributed homogenously, but concentrated to the areas where the air traffic happens.

So “rare” is a relative term, comparing to the entire world surface. You are consistently ignoring that.

Besides, that value of 0.09% was valid for the data collection period of the study, which went from 1991 to 1992.

Because this value is tied directly to the amount of air traffic, it will now have increased proportionally - almost threefold since 1992. So why should it be amazing that there are more contrails?

josh - you unqualified anonymous banal shill - stfu already.
you have absolutely nothing of substance to disprove the patents, the method, the means, the motive, the countless documentation of anomalous trails, far too in number to be reasonably dismissed as “persistant con trails” which according to a link you posted, the specific atmospheric conditions required for, are a RARE occurence. you babble on incessantly as some sort of answer to everything..  but you offer absolutely NOTHING OF SUBSTANCE!

no one is asking for your retarded opinion, so go get a big red dog up you chump.. put up or bloody well shut up fool.