Contrails dissipate quickly whereas chemtrails linger?

Categories: [ Chemtrails ]

Contrails over London in 1944

Vapour trails left by British bombers on route to attack flying-bomb sites encircle the dome of St. Paul's Cathedral. London, 1944.

All those who passionately believe that "contrails dissipate quickly" whereas "chemtrails linger" and are deeply offended by the sceptical position that TNRA takes in regard to these claims, are free to "unlike" Truth News.

If, on the other hand, you would like to engage in rational debate, you're most welcome to do so.

However, please be advised that the information I have to impart may be shocking and difficult to grasp if you have been a "chemtrail alarmist" for a long time.

The often cited claim that "normal contrails dissipate quickly" is total bunkum.

There is not a shred of science to backup that claim. Nothing, nada, zippo!

Those who promote this idea are simply repeating something they read on a web page without checking sources.

CONTRAIL SCIENCE

For a contrail to form, suitable conditions must occur immediately behind a jet engine in the expanding engine exhaust plume. A contrail will form if, as the exhaust gases cool and mix with surrounding air, the humidity becomes high enough (or, equivalently, the air temperature becomes low enough) for liquid water to condense on particles and form liquid droplets. If the local air is cold enough, these newly formed droplets then freeze and form ice particles that make up a contrail.

Because the basic processes are very well understood, contrail formation for a given aircraft flight can be accurately predicted if atmospheric temperature and humidity conditions are known.

After the initial formation of ice, a contrail evolves in one of two ways. If the humidity is low, the contrail will be short-lived. Newly formed ice particles will quickly evaporate. The resulting contrail will extend only a short distance behind the aircraft. If the humidity is high, the contrail will be persistent. Newly formed ice particles will continue to grow in size by taking water from the surrounding atmosphere. The resulting line-shaped contrail extends for large distances behind an aircraft. Persistent contrails can last for hours while growing to several kilometers in width and 200 to 400 meters in height. Contrails spread because of air turbulence created by the passage of aircraft, differences in wind speed along the flight track, and possibly through effects of solar heating.

Thus, the surrounding atmosphere’s conditions determine to a large extent whether or not a contrail will form after an aircraft’s passage, and how it evolves. Other factors that influence contrail formation include engine fuel efficiency, which affects the amount of heat and water emitted in the exhaust plume.
- source

TNRA is informed by science and is not interested in propping up anyone's belief systems, and we don't apologise for that.

But, please, don't take it from me, speak to any meteorologist or any pilot and they'll tell you straight, that there is HUGE variation in the length and persistence of contrails. Sometimes they don't form at all, other times they form, but disspate quickly, other times they persist and spread out.

That's the facts folks, and it's been that way since planes first went up in the sky.

If you believe otherwise, I'm afraid you've been conned.

Forgive me if I seem rude or impatient on this topic, but every few months I come across a new wave of people who have been subjected to the same false propaganda about chemtrails, and I have to run the same arguments and cite the same articles over and over again. It does wear one's patience down.

Before making some kind of angry reply, I urge you to read this article and associated links. It's fairly detailed, and deals with most of the usual claims made by chemtrail alarmists.

Finally, let me qualify all this by saying that I do not doubt that geo-engineering programs exist, and that, indeed, some of the patented techniques discussed at international forums include the creation of artificial cirrus cloud. Does this, however, entitle you to conclude that every spreading contrail you see is an example of such geo-engineering?

Think about it.

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Please review the Terms of Service before reading or responding to comments.

I think he is a pilot but anyone who pads his resume with “thousands of hours of command instrument time”, sounds like a light aircraft pilot to me. Command instrument time means nothing.. Except that you have an instrument rating. if he had any jet time, he would have said so.

As far as Highbreedo is concerned, the consensus is that he filmed his lawn sprinkler. If what he filmed was a common occurrence after an alleged “spray”, it would have been picked up by now

By Mike Glynn on 2012 08 05 - 20:18:32

I am really more interested in knowing whether climate change sceptics want to oppose geoengineering (because on their assumptions if there is no climate change there is no need for geoengineering).

By Wayne Hall on 2012 08 05 - 20:22:41

I should add that If you want to know how professional pilots view the chemtrail question, go to PPRUNE.org and do a search there. There are a multitude of posts dedicated to the subject… Every one uniformly scornful.

By Mike Glynn on 2012 08 05 - 20:26:17

I will take a look, but Skywatcher’s remark about unicorns and leprechauns seems pertinent.

The intellectual battle is not on the contrails vs chemtrails front. It is on the front where you yourself have admitted that you are uncertain. You don’t know whether you are against geoengineering, but you have felt pretty certain of your position on the climate change debates i.e. that the ecologists are wrong. You won’t notice it when the goalposts have been shifted and all the climate change sceptics have become supporters of geoengineering as the answer to anthropogenic climate change.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 08 05 - 20:38:52

Wayne Hall,

I’m sure you will find information and good discussions about climate change on one of these pages:
http://www.truthnews.com.au/web/channel/category/climate_change

Here we are discussing a different topic. Just in case you did not notice.

By Josh on 2012 08 05 - 20:50:44

This is of course disingenuous because the reference was to geoengineering, not to climate change, and it was addressed to Mike Glynn.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 08 05 - 21:08:40

“If what he filmed was a common occurrence after an alleged ‘spray’ it would have been picked up by now.”

This is a statement from a person who RELIES on some unspecified “others” being more alert than he is himself.

There are evidently “conservative” people who are still not aware that Leftists, socialists, progressives, whatever they like to call themselves, are no longer doing the social and ecological legwork for the “social maintream”.

You CANNOT depend on the assumption that someone else is going to be more clever or more vigilant than you are yourself.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 08 06 - 04:27:05

I will give you that one Wayne. That was untidy of me. May I invoke Occams Razor then? Mr HighBreedo claims that he captured the “fallout” from a chemtrail spray which appeared to happen very quickly after whatever was sprayed was released at the jets cruising altitude, generally 35000 feet or thereabouts.
Apart from the obvious questions like how did nano particles and aerosols reach the ground so quickly, the lack of any supporting evidence once again renders the burden of proof on Mr Highbreedo. There he is at a disadvantage, mainly brought on by the content of his other videos.
Occams razor says it is more likely to be dust, pollen or the alleged sprinkler.

Can I say Wayne that you return to the subject when it suits you, but veer away when asked any questions about it. You may think that clever… However it is painfully transparent.

By Mike Glynn on 2012 08 06 - 07:48:36

OK, you have acknowledged the main point, which by the way makes the rest of your post inconsistent.

I could put up a whole host of links to similar videos from other (nutcase?) people, but to do that would be to change the way I approach this subject.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 08 06 - 10:07:00

What is your agenda Wayne Hall?

Mine is simply to know the truth, and following from the well known Sherlock Holmes principe of ruling out the impossible, I believe I am getting, step by step, closer to my goal.

The claim that “normal” chemtrails dissipate quickly is one which will not stand up to scrutiny.

It is just plain wrong.

Can we at least agree on that?

By Hereward Fenton on 2012 08 06 - 10:50:07

Hereward Fenton, there are plenty of others here who will engage with you in the contrails vs chemtrails discussion. I have been involved with chemtrails for so many years that I am not motivated to continue pursuing what I do not regard as the best way to present the subject to those who wonder about what they see in the sky, and want more information about it.

As a member of the “gatekeeper Left” organization ATTAC I tried years ago to initiate an investigation, and even secured participation from Greenpeace and the Greek section of the European Left Party. http://www.attac-hellas.org/seminars/geoengineering/programmeenglish.htm

They listened to what we had to say on geoengineering but did not comment and spoke only on climate change. Their views were of course pro-anthropogenic climate change.

Even ATTAC was not really prepared to pursue the subject, outside of Greece, and the Greeks too did not sustain any interest.

This is the way things have remained until recently. The new lease of life of the climate change sceptics with Climategate and prior to the Copenhagen summit has had contradictory effects. On the one hand it confused many ecologists, on the other it led some climate change sceptics to the position of beginning to agree with the theory of anthropogenic climate change, if geoengineering were accepted as an appropriate “solution”.

The majority of chemtrails activists (not including myself) are anthropogenic climate change sceptics and take the position that because climate change is a myth, geoengineering is unnecessary. This very simplistic idea does not equip chemtrails activists to deal with the complex politics or their opponents.

Very recently an article by Phil Ridley seems to point in new directions: http://www.economicvoice.com/liborgate-dwarfed-by-geo-engineering-of-entire-planet/50031362#axzz22kQoOBQZ

Philip is a climate-change sceptic and seems to have hopes of making use of the British common law tradition to fight geoengineering. In a new development: his article was circulated by ATTAC, despite his (for them heretical) climate change scepticism. Probably one reason that ATTAC was open to Philip’s article was that he has a lot to say about financial speculation and economic corruption as an element in weather and climate control projects. The casino economy is a central concern of ATTAC.

People are growing tired of the mainstream climate change debate, with interest focusing increasingly on “The Financialisation of Nature”.

Long-time climate change true believers (like in Australia your Clive Hamilton) are becoming increasingly urgent in their opposition to geoengineering, but their stance is weak: fatalistic and wimpish. They are very wary of any collaboration with chemtrails activists. They are afraid of (most) chemtrails activists’ climate change scepticism but are also influenced by your reading of the contrails vs chemtrails debate.

This forum, which pursues 911 Truth and other issues against the mainstream, should also start to move away from the climate change debate and towards the financialisation of nature debate.

Climate change sceptics like Lord Monckton, Bob Carter, etc. who have nothing worthwhile to add to the geoengineering debate, are not very useful allies for you. They just perpetuate confusion and divide-and-rule scenarios. You ask me what my agenda is? It is to try to get both climate change sceptics and climate change true believers away from their red herring subjects of contrails/chemtrails and the mainstream climate debate and onto the subject of the financialisation of nature.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 08 06 - 14:37:43

The claim that “normal” chemtrails dissipate quickly is one which will not stand up to scrutiny.

It is just plain wrong.

whatever…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjhDfuhMKqM

lol - im not sure you understand the difference between evaporate and dissipate though.

evaporate is what a “normal contrail” can, and usually does.. quickly. if you mean that they “may” however, sometimes linger longer, no one is denying that.

depending on what is being sprayed though, that will linger and dissipate over time, covering the sky..

are you in fact trying to say that there is no way that there are any planes spraying anything, at any time?

if not, and youd be a total knob if indeed you tried to.. then how can you say the things that i am witnessing, are certainly contrails, and definitely not chemtrails?

fact is, you cant, no one can.. so trying to prove your point of view on the matter here is a joke. pathetic.

By Skywatcher on 2012 08 06 - 15:09:30

This is the first relevant article I wrote, giving my take on chemtrails/contrails, based on visual observation and then checking the internet.
http://www.enouranois.gr/Oikia/hddf/why.htm

As I said, I don’t want to keep talking about this subject the way I did ten years ago. I agree with Skywalker, but I think the reason for his aggressiveness is that he is trying to persuade Hereward Fenton where Hereward’s resistance is strongest rather than where it is weaker.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 08 06 - 15:52:42

Skywatcher,

there is a nice applet available (needs Java) which shows how contrail behaviour depends on the atmospheric conditions:

http://profhorn.aos.wisc.edu/wxwise/AckermanKnox/chap15/contrail_applet.html

Again: do clouds sometimes persist for hours? If so, why can’t contrails?

By Josh on 2012 08 06 - 15:55:36

This is what Clive Hamilton published in “The Guardian”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/dec/05/clique-geoengineering-debate#start-of-comments

And in a couple of the brilliant comments underneath he is taxed with being “anti-American”.

What is more important with a character like Hamilton, to beat him a climate argument or help him win a “chemtrails are contrails” argument, on which subject he would agree with Hereward Fenton?

By Wayne Hall on 2012 08 06 - 17:49:31

In other words is he on your side or my side?

Or can we start builing something that we can call “our side”?

By Wayne Hall on 2012 08 06 - 18:11:19

josh. youve confused me for someone who gives a damn what you think..or how much banal obfuscating extraneous minutia you wish to regurgitate..

wayne.. im not aggressive, and im not trying to convince anyone of anything.. im just stating my reasons why i dont believe anything hereward says..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0J7MXQaPS8

make of it what you will

By Skywatcher on 2012 08 06 - 19:15:29

the simple fact is..

just like there is no irrefutable evidence beyond all reasonable doubt that the official version of 911 is true, there is no irrefutable evidence that beyond all reasonable doubt that there are no chemtrails being sprayed all over the place, because frankly, if there was one of you geniuses here wouldve posted it already.

so to post an article here, pretending that there is no cause for alarm, is a pretentious deceitful ploy..

either put up or shut up, and let people who have reasonable justifiable concerns express them without all your unqualified baseless opinion.

By Skywatcher on 2012 08 06 - 19:26:39

Skywatcher,

if you are not interested in knowledge and discussion about facts, I can’t help wondering why you are posting here.

If you do it with “third party” readers in mind - well, I can do likewise. I will continue to counter bunk when I see it.

So, let the readers decide whose arguments they deem more reasonable.

By Josh on 2012 08 06 - 19:32:41

Amen. I don’t mind your tone and if Hereward or Josh do….. well, I agree that they are the ones ones who are out of step. Particularly at a 911 Truth Forum!!!

By Wayne Hall on 2012 08 06 - 19:35:10

Page 12 of 55 pages ‹ First < 10 11 12 13 14 > Last ›

RECLAIM AUSTRALIA IS DOOMED

Although I agree with many of their ideas, the forces reigned against RAM are too great, violent, statist and reactionary for them to remain a non-political, broad based, multi-ethnic, community protest group for much longer. The Left and their Antifa nihilist fellow travelers are already pushing them towards the extreme Right, by calling them racists and Islamophobes and so on. Whilst the extreme Right have aligned themselves with RAM. With fascists of the Left and Right pressuring them they will not be able to remain beyond the Left-Right divide and will inevitably move to the Right - the extreme Right. Which is already happening. A development which will alienate decent Australians of all ethnic backgrounds many of whom currently support them.

The RAM leadership have already established open alliances with the Patriotic Front (the ape in the photograph is a Patriot Front supporter at a recent Richmond demonstration) Australia First and Golden Dawn, a Greek neo-Nazi party. Members of these collectivist groups are currently attending RAM demonstrations all over Australia.

There is a real need in Australia to establish a political movement beyond the Left-Right divide and their vested interests, a movement that questions the current direction Australia is heading i.e. the direction the Left/Right and their extremes would like to take it; that questions the efficacy of state sponsored multiculturalism, as opposed to a proper, non-discriminatory immigration policy; that questions the validity of political correctness; that is politically neutral, anti-war and pro environment; that is opposed to all collectivists ideologies (fascisms of the Left and Right); that would dismantle the power pyramids of corporations and banks and their ability to impact on government; that would dissolve all anti-terror laws and all laws that impose on the rights and freedom of the individual and the people.

(The ape in the photograph is a Patriot Front supporter at a recent Richmond demonstration)

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/reclaim-australia-rally-set-for-sydney-on-sunday-20150718-gifb9s.html

http://australiafirstparty.net/news/reclaiming-australia-queensland-senate-campaign/

By Eugene Donnini on 2015 07 26 - 15:36:56
From the entry 'Dylann Roof: soldier in a new race war or just a pawn in the game?'.

Hello there I am so thrilled I found your web site, I really found you by error, while I was searching on Digg for something else, Anyways I am here now and would just like to say thanks for a incredible post and a all round thrilling blog (I also love the theme/design), I don韙 have time to go through it all at the minute but I have bookmarked it and also included your RSS feeds, so when I have time I will be back to read a lot more, Please do keep up the great work.

By Prova a Adidas Neutro Originals Nizza Nero Giallo on 2015 07 20 - 08:41:30
From the entry 'Statism, the greater good and the big lie'.

I second Keith’s assertion that Mike Holt from Restore Australia is very much a fake. He bangs on about Halaal being a scam and money maker for Islam (and no I don’t support Halaal whatsoever), but makes excuses for its counterpart Kosher as being a somehow legitimate. Double standards? When I confronted him about this fact he went off on a convoluted tirade about Israel being some sort of “Bastion of Democracy” in the middle east…Really!, I will leave that one up to the readers to decide on. I found that MH came across as disingenuous to say the least.

By Citizen Scorn on 2015 07 19 - 07:33:43
From the entry 'Restore Australia!'.

Without doubt, TNR is one of the best, if not the best alternative news source on the net. Which doesn’t mean Herewood is always right. His job, I believe, is to present the facts as he sees them as an objectively as possible, without fear or favor. For this, he has my respect and support. But I believe he needs to be careful and to think a little deeper about the problems of “racism,” in Australia. He has labelled the Reclaim Australia Movement as racist. I’m wondering if his objectivity is a little weak on this point, a little without foundation.

Of course all political movements have its fringe groups and individuals. We make a distinction between, for example, a Muslim and a fundamentalist Muslim (Islamist), and by so doing we don’t claim that all Muslims are blood thirsty fanatics. If its good for the Muslims, then its good for RAM, which is bound to attract a few lunatics and real racists. But to brand the entire movement as “racist” is wrong; it is the same ploy that is used by the mainstream media and its left-wing, establishment Marxist boot boys.

One of the first things I noticed when i attended a RAM rally recently were the amount of non-white people in attendance, including Aboriginals. In fact the main banner of RAM contains an Australian flag and an Aboriginal flag. Speakers at their rallies have included Jews, Arabs, Indians, Aboriginals, Chinese and so on. What does this tell you? Is this really a fascist-Nazi-racist movement whose stated aim are the eradication and exclusion of other cultures, in place of some sort of Aussie white Reich, or is this just propaganda that is being propagated by the left for their own political interests. Consequently, we all know where the culmination of their politics have led, historically speaking, which are to the imposition of terror and dictatorships.

We can be thankful for small mercies, in terms of the Left, which today mostly tends to attract collectivists, establishmentarians and the privileged sons and daughters of the upper bourgeoisie, who seems to share one thing in common, nativity….

By Eugene on 2015 07 18 - 16:03:54
From the entry 'Dylann Roof: soldier in a new race war or just a pawn in the game?'.

Mike Holt from Restore Australia is very much a fake. He hasn’t even been citizen for but a few years. But, he makes out like he was born there. ALSO - this guy spent 30 years in Thailand working shady businesses. I would wager that his primary purpose in being an activist is that he wants to make money off selling merchandise.

By Keith on 2015 07 17 - 20:51:15
From the entry 'Restore Australia!'.

good to see you putting out some new shows heraward

freely the banana girl is to a certain extent a troll, as is her boyfriend durian rider. they have been trolling the fitness community on youtube for some time… and yes they are extreme but they are also trolls. They use their trolling to spread their message. currently, another dude called vegangains is trolling the fitness community as well.

i am a vegetarian, and it was seeing this documentary on the pork industry that started me on the vegetarian path. for anyone interested, its pretty off the charts disturbing and its australian as well. its pretty much made by dudes breaking into pork farms and filming what they find

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KArL5YjaL5U

Would the world be better if people cared where their food came from? probably, they might then care about other things too

do you become a better person if you dont eat meat? i feel like a better person mainly because animals aren’t being hurt because of me. i dont feel humans have to eat meat really… or at least not much. How can you watch that documentary on pork, know that that is pretty much whats going on and turn a blind eye to it? I think its basic empathy and just saying well ‘i like bacon so yeah’ is in my opinion wrong and i can see freleys point of view to an extent. In my opinion, at least these people believe in something. i see my money as my vote, henceforth im ethical as to what i do with it. free range eggs became mainstream for exactly this reason… although im pretty sure woolies and coles lobbied the state to change the definition of the word ‘free range’ at some point. I dont eat beef because the amount of resources that go into growing a cow are pretty crazy. Think about how much grass that cow needs to eat before it is harvested and how much space it requires. think of how many vegies you could grow in the same space with the same amount of water. lamb? comon, think about what your doing here… but that being said i think most vegans are total loons. People like freeley should be advocating for the destruction of lions and tigers, as lions and tigers murder other animals in truly horrific style. if we humans are smart enough to not harm animals, then we should be stopping the animals that harm other animals from existing. Freeley also kills birds when she flies in aeroplanes so she is a hypocrite.

feminism is one of the biggest problems in society today and although there is some valid historical basis to it, the liberation of the human female from their biology is in my opinion largely a product of the technological advance of humans. sufferagettes where never machine gunned on the streets, unlike the men that where drafted and sent off to war to die just a few years earlier. as technology has advanced, women have advanced as well, however now its going way too far and is pretty blatantly anti male in many respects. i view feminism in its modern context as a tool of the social marxists that really isnt doing society a great deal of good at this time. its screwing up gender dynamics and is wrecking women and men for each other. i see it as low frequency, lowest common denominator idiocy, just like a lot of the the race baiting ‘is this racist’ stuff getting around that is being perpetuated pretty much as a distraction, divide and conquer strategy by the power elite. idiots love this kind of bicker and beef… it would be funny if it wasn’t so serious

anyway

I agree with steven friar. gods a maniac

good show… keep making them

By r0Kb3B0p on 2015 07 14 - 21:05:32
From the entry 'Addictions, obsessions, fanaticisms and distractions'.

Really truthfull.

By OZE on 2015 07 07 - 16:56:36
From the entry 'Defending your personal health choices'.

Yeah sure authority aware.

By OZE on 2015 07 07 - 16:28:55
From the entry 'What is the future of Australia?'.

Stay tuned for more rules here as usually is the case!!!

By OZE on 2015 07 07 - 16:21:50
From the entry 'Mass media disinformation and brainwashing dissected'.

Almost two months since the last broadcast! How the hell can you expect people to donate when you don’t broadcast? Looks like the ship of truth has sprung a leak. This broadcast has been part of my life almost since its inception…it is one of the few alternative news sources that hasn’t gone off the deep end, by dilution credible information with crap e.g. Fairdinkum Radio and Info Wars…Pittard started FR with some incredibly interesting material, but then he flipped…Today he sounds like a fundamentalist preacher, the Christian equivalent to a Fanatical Islamist. As an atheist, I think he’s really ###### up a potentially good show. As for Info Wars, all they would have to do to improve is dump Alex Jones, what a shit-for-brains. I reckon Jones and Pittard are allowed to proliferate, because they’re so stupid and harmless. I suppose they have some entertainment value, and along with David Icke are living examples of how low the alternative media has sunk. Truth News Radio is, or should I say was, way ahead of them all ahead of them all in terms of credibility How sad that its come to this.

By Eugene on 2015 06 28 - 17:28:56
From the entry 'Introducing Internet.org: Mark Zuckerberg's free 'private' internet which will soon be rolled out to 4 billion+ people'.

Contrails dissipate quickly whereas chemtrails linger?

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