Contrails dissipate quickly whereas chemtrails linger?

Categories: [ Chemtrails ]

Contrails over London in 1944

Vapour trails left by British bombers on route to attack flying-bomb sites encircle the dome of St. Paul's Cathedral. London, 1944.

All those who passionately believe that "contrails dissipate quickly" whereas "chemtrails linger" and are deeply offended by the sceptical position that TNRA takes in regard to these claims, are free to "unlike" Truth News.

If, on the other hand, you would like to engage in rational debate, you're most welcome to do so.

However, please be advised that the information I have to impart may be shocking and difficult to grasp if you have been a "chemtrail alarmist" for a long time.

The often cited claim that "normal contrails dissipate quickly" is total bunkum.

There is not a shred of science to backup that claim. Nothing, nada, zippo!

Those who promote this idea are simply repeating something they read on a web page without checking sources.

CONTRAIL SCIENCE

For a contrail to form, suitable conditions must occur immediately behind a jet engine in the expanding engine exhaust plume. A contrail will form if, as the exhaust gases cool and mix with surrounding air, the humidity becomes high enough (or, equivalently, the air temperature becomes low enough) for liquid water to condense on particles and form liquid droplets. If the local air is cold enough, these newly formed droplets then freeze and form ice particles that make up a contrail.

Because the basic processes are very well understood, contrail formation for a given aircraft flight can be accurately predicted if atmospheric temperature and humidity conditions are known.

After the initial formation of ice, a contrail evolves in one of two ways. If the humidity is low, the contrail will be short-lived. Newly formed ice particles will quickly evaporate. The resulting contrail will extend only a short distance behind the aircraft. If the humidity is high, the contrail will be persistent. Newly formed ice particles will continue to grow in size by taking water from the surrounding atmosphere. The resulting line-shaped contrail extends for large distances behind an aircraft. Persistent contrails can last for hours while growing to several kilometers in width and 200 to 400 meters in height. Contrails spread because of air turbulence created by the passage of aircraft, differences in wind speed along the flight track, and possibly through effects of solar heating.

Thus, the surrounding atmosphere’s conditions determine to a large extent whether or not a contrail will form after an aircraft’s passage, and how it evolves. Other factors that influence contrail formation include engine fuel efficiency, which affects the amount of heat and water emitted in the exhaust plume.
- source

TNRA is informed by science and is not interested in propping up anyone's belief systems, and we don't apologise for that.

But, please, don't take it from me, speak to any meteorologist or any pilot and they'll tell you straight, that there is HUGE variation in the length and persistence of contrails. Sometimes they don't form at all, other times they form, but disspate quickly, other times they persist and spread out.

That's the facts folks, and it's been that way since planes first went up in the sky.

If you believe otherwise, I'm afraid you've been conned.

Forgive me if I seem rude or impatient on this topic, but every few months I come across a new wave of people who have been subjected to the same false propaganda about chemtrails, and I have to run the same arguments and cite the same articles over and over again. It does wear one's patience down.

Before making some kind of angry reply, I urge you to read this article and associated links. It's fairly detailed, and deals with most of the usual claims made by chemtrail alarmists.

Finally, let me qualify all this by saying that I do not doubt that geo-engineering programs exist, and that, indeed, some of the patented techniques discussed at international forums include the creation of artificial cirrus cloud. Does this, however, entitle you to conclude that every spreading contrail you see is an example of such geo-engineering?

Think about it.

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Look at Monbiot’s latest!
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/08/07

In what way are the “commodifiers of nature” “impostors”?

Why does he say “we are being conned again”?

How was he conned before?

Should he have been an anthropogenic climate change sceptic, or was he “conned” in some other way?

Monbiot would always have agreed, and no doubt still DOES agree, with Josh and Hereward about the unnacceptability of chemtrails conspiracy theorists.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 08 08 - 04:39:10

josh.. i wouldnt have picked you for a german.. id have guessed youd have likely been a native of gibber as your gibberish is impeccable..

fact is, most german students learn english at school, and like i said, its very basic english, you probably know a few school kids you could ask if youre still having issues, and i say again, your constant wish to evidence your stupidity with your baseless unqualified arguing of meaningless point after point, is more amusing than it is annoying -

youre simply not as good at all this debunking stuff as you think you are, but youre not alone there, such narcissism is a common trait in people like you, ie; those that profess to be final arbiters on a subject but are unable to back it up with anything but their own unqualified opinion -the only thing i could possibly learn from you is the art of being a moronic time wasting chain jerker..

fact is dummkopf, the only thing im learning from you is how totally incapable you are of comprehending a simple point.

heres the facts for you again, you can not say beyond all reasonable doubt that there are no chemicals being sprayed from planes, fact is, there is evidence beyond all reasonable doubt that spraying is not only on the record recently as being considered as a possible option to control global warming - documented events and statements prove it has been carried out in the past and present .. its not if that is the question in my mind - its what and why )

so stop trying to tell me what it is i am witnessing with my own eyes, i simply dont care for your idiotic unqualified opinions, so either put up or shut up.. verstehen?

By Skywatcher on 2012 08 08 - 05:17:52

why the need for this? wonder what the canadians are worried about?

“Weather modification activity” includes any action designed or intended to produce, by physical or chemical means, changes in the composition or dynamics of the atmosphere for the purpose of increasing, decreasing or redis- tributing precipitation, decreasing or suppress- ing hail or lightning or dissipating fog or cloud.”

Full .pdf from Canada’s own government wbesite:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/PDF/W-5.pdf

- not unreasonable to ask is it?

By Skywatcher on 2012 08 08 - 05:26:11

few more facts here - it takes a very stupid person to argue that chemical geoengineering weather modification is not going on when it is being openly discussed by global organisations, nasa and governments alike..

very stupid indeed.

http://tinyurl.com/9vjydua

go beyond the sp1n? - wank wank wank..

By Skywatcher on 2012 08 08 - 05:41:18

meh…

http://tinyurl.com/7vv8n4a

By Skywatcher on 2012 08 08 - 10:22:46

Unfortunately people like Johannes Remmel are a great exception in the Greens, who (apart from the Serbs and the Cypriots) at the leadership level adhere to the Josh/Hereward view of things.

Cohn-Bendit opts for a more sophisticated variant of the greenwash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToxPiW_2RC8
(minute 27.42)

He does not say that he knows chemtrails are “just contrails”.

Other Green leaders, like the Greek Greek Europarliamentarian Chrysogelos do: http://www.enouranois.gr/english/epistolesenglish/indexrisogelos.htm

What Cohn-Bendit says is that scientists are still arguing, and until they reach a consensus he as a politician cannot take a position.

He leaves it unclear what the politicians are arguing about, whether he means the anthropogenic climate change debate or the contrails/chemtrails debate.

Obviously, though, in the case of the anthropogenic climate change debate the absence of scientific consensus has not prevented Greens everywhere (including in Serbia and Cyprus) from identifying unambiguously with one side of the debate.

Going back to Germans (and German-speakers) generally. The Austrian journalist Christian Haderer in 2005 published one of the first books in German on chemtrails. I translated it into English; a colleague translated it into Greek. In neither case could these translations find a publisher.

But the German original is in print:
http://www.amazon.de/Chemtrails-Verschwörung-Himmel-Wettermanipulation-Öffentlichkeit/dp/3853652131

and Josh can read it. If anyone wants to read the English text I can send it to them on request (an e-mail to enouranois at gmail.com)

In my opinion it is not a good idea for English speakers to keep looking at Germans through twentieth century spectacles. Given the NATO-imposed virtual-reality that encloses Germany as much as it does any other NATO country, it is often only German far-rightists and identifiers with the viewpoint of soldiers (including Hitler’s soldiers) that can see some things for what they are.

Haderer is not a far-rightist. He is a trendy journalist, and he soon found that his writing about chemtrails was not advancing his career, with the result that he more or less abandoned the subject and does not work with present-day chemtrails activists in Germany or Austria. Nevertheless, his account of the viewpoint of a Vienna tram driver, for whom chemtrails planes conjured up visions of World War II allied bombing, is a reminder of how the world has seemed to other human beings within living memory in Europe.

Geoengineering has its roots mostly in American nuclear weapons laboratories, and in turn American nuclear weapons laboratories have their roots in the practice of strategic bombing of civilians by aircraft. It is a practice which was admittedly started by the Germans, towards the end of World War I when they were losing and getting desperate, but it was practised by the British and Americans on a scale that vastly overshadows anything done by the Luftwaffe. And the British and American deployment of strategic bombing of civilians cannot be “justified” by the desperation of a nation facing defeat.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 08 08 - 11:49:57

I was at that symposium in Ghent to which Skywatcher keeps referring us and I might say that Coen Vermeeren’s remarks on the political system were worth recording and translating
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKHjN0vUvOY&feature=plcp

As was the deposition of young Sofia Xenidis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPACF_ultmY

By Wayne Hall on 2012 08 08 - 11:59:00

wayne… with my spontaneous vitriol and inability to suffer fools.. and your patient attention to detail and ability to, well, tolerate fools.. we could go places.. just sayin…

By Skywatcher on 2012 08 08 - 16:50:24

So let’s go places.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 08 08 - 17:00:46

florida?

dont like the look of the weather to be honest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bejqo5IDZ7c

By Skywatcher on 2012 08 08 - 17:22:58

It would be good to see this kind of thing happening at more universities.

Skywatcher did you listen to last year’s discussion on chemtrails where Hereward
http://www.truthnews.com.au/web/radio/story/highlights_from_skid_row_radio_with_hereward_karla_and_jack
took issue with Naomi Klein
http://www.thenation.com/article/164497/capitalism-vs-climate?page=0,0&rel=emailNation

and debated around the assumptions that the climate change discussion is between collectivists on one side and freedom lovers on the other.

Neither side of this crap debate is worthy of a 911 Truth Forum. Naomi Klein is a gatekeeper lefist who belongs in the same category as the Monbiots and Clive Hamiltons. She doesn’t accept reality either over 911 or over chemtrails.

It might be possible to find common ground with such people in future, but only by rejecting the ridiculous divide-and-rule debates of the last ten years.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 08 08 - 18:07:17

Skywatcher:
“Contrails can not start and stop”

Me:
“They can because of horizontal humidity variations”

Skywatcher:
“Doesnt explain why i can witness planes flying with what i consider normal contrails, and on the same day, at the same time, others flying around with totally abnormal contrails, chemtrails, being switched on and off.”

Me:
“Can be explained by vertical variation of humidity, see measurements”

Skywatcher:
“Doesn’t explain turning a perfectly clear sky completely “overcast” entirely from what has come out of the back of planes flying over..”

Me:
“Humid air comes first, trails are consequence, not cause”

Skywatcher:
“Don’t give a damn what you think”

Me:
“See this applet demonstrating contrail behaviour”

Skywatcher:
“Banal obfuscating extraneous minutia”

Me:
“What do you think about the explanations I gave?”

Skywatcher:
“What I see is right”, “seek the guidance of a suitably qualified 12 year old”, “lumpen josh”, “all your bullshit”, “your gibberish is impeccable”, “your baseless unqualified arguing”, “dummkopf”, “your idiotic unqualified opinions”

...

Do you think that being rude will divert attention from the fact that you have not countered my arguments?

Why don’t you point out the concrete factual errors in my explanations instead of merely insulting me?

By Josh on 2012 08 08 - 18:23:32

@ josh.. lets start with the last and work backwards..

Why don’t you point out the concrete factual errors in my explanations instead of merely insulting me?

you havnt made a factual argument yet. #######.

Do you think that being rude will divert attention from the fact that you have not countered my arguments?

see above #######

meh…

who the hell do you think you are that anything you say should be taken as anything more than unqualified, unsubstantiated, unsolicited opinion?

heres 50 cents chuckles,, go rent a clue

By Skywatcher on 2012 08 08 - 19:28:30

Skywatcher did you listen to last year’s discussion on chemtrails where Hereward took issue with Naomi Klein and debated around the assumptions that the climate change discussion is between collectivists on one side and freedom lovers on the other.

nahhh ... missed it… and i havnt been able to sleep since :D

have you signed up for this yet

well.. cant blame him for trying.. it worked for adrianna after all..
pretentious pratts - oder witzelsucht vielleicht dumme esel

By Skywatcher on 2012 08 08 - 20:16:11

Josh, Skywatcher can speak for himself in what he says to you, but in my case the reason that I am not willing to engage with you in the discussion that you demand is that all the things you want to talk about are what I talked about ten years ago when I first came to this subject.

http://www.enouranois.gr/Oikia/hddf/why.htm

As time passed I continued investigation and uncovered further aspects of what was happening and what was proposed, and I naturally became more interested in them than in the first things I learned.

There is no reason, other than a wilful decision not to learn, why you can’t do the same.

By putting yourself disingenuously in the learner role, where it is my job (or the job of others) to be your teacher, you are exerting a kind of blackmail.

In fact you are not my student. We are equals. That means that I am free to say whatever I like to you.

Of course you are also free. This is why the discussion goes around in circles, except insofar as others join it and introduce more interesting subjects.

Or when you happen to add an item of information, as with the Paris-Cuba flight.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 08 08 - 21:16:45

Skywatcher said:

“you havnt made a factual argument yet.”

Can you at least explain why it is not a factual argument when I show you how extremely variable the atmospheric humidity can be, even over arid land?

I wish you would stop your insults. They are not helping in any way.

By Josh on 2012 08 08 - 21:26:18

Skywatcher, as for Hereward canvassing for volunteer collaborators, I am sure that more would be coming forward if he didn’t persist in his divisive politics. He can keep his climate change scepticism and his libertarianism if he wants to get off the contrails/chemtrails thing.
Even those who disagree with him will work with him, as I work with the Belfort Group people, who are nearly all climate change sceptics and libertarian right-wingers.

Contrails/chemtrails is the most obviously retrograde element in his way of thinking and it prevents him from fighting greenwash effectively.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 08 08 - 21:33:03

Easyjet
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhpTr_ZJ4Gk

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saXMRYt-a1g&feature=player_embedded

3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZX5KqDGbjY&feature=plcp

By Wayne Hall on 2012 08 09 - 00:40:29

The Enouranois website has been down for the last few days. As soon as we get it back online we will post a link to a debate of a few years ago between climate change sceptic Tim Ball and chemtrails activist views.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 08 15 - 15:17:29

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/12/6/bolivian_un_ambassador_pablo_solon_reacts

By Wayne Hall on 2012 08 19 - 14:21:03

Page 14 of 55 pages ‹ First < 12 13 14 15 16 > Last ›

RECLAIM AUSTRALIA IS DOOMED

Although I agree with many of their ideas, the forces reigned against RAM are too great, violent, statist and reactionary for them to remain a non-political, broad based, multi-ethnic, community protest group for much longer. The Left and their Antifa nihilist fellow travelers are already pushing them towards the extreme Right, by calling them racists and Islamophobes and so on. Whilst the extreme Right have aligned themselves with RAM. With fascists of the Left and Right pressuring them they will not be able to remain beyond the Left-Right divide and will inevitably move to the Right - the extreme Right. Which is already happening. A development which will alienate decent Australians of all ethnic backgrounds many of whom currently support them.

The RAM leadership have already established open alliances with the Patriotic Front (the ape in the photograph is a Patriot Front supporter at a recent Richmond demonstration) Australia First and Golden Dawn, a Greek neo-Nazi party. Members of these collectivist groups are currently attending RAM demonstrations all over Australia.

There is a real need in Australia to establish a political movement beyond the Left-Right divide and their vested interests, a movement that questions the current direction Australia is heading i.e. the direction the Left/Right and their extremes would like to take it; that questions the efficacy of state sponsored multiculturalism, as opposed to a proper, non-discriminatory immigration policy; that questions the validity of political correctness; that is politically neutral, anti-war and pro environment; that is opposed to all collectivists ideologies (fascisms of the Left and Right); that would dismantle the power pyramids of corporations and banks and their ability to impact on government; that would dissolve all anti-terror laws and all laws that impose on the rights and freedom of the individual and the people.

(The ape in the photograph is a Patriot Front supporter at a recent Richmond demonstration)

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/reclaim-australia-rally-set-for-sydney-on-sunday-20150718-gifb9s.html

http://australiafirstparty.net/news/reclaiming-australia-queensland-senate-campaign/

By Eugene Donnini on 2015 07 26 - 15:36:56
From the entry 'Dylann Roof: soldier in a new race war or just a pawn in the game?'.

Hello there I am so thrilled I found your web site, I really found you by error, while I was searching on Digg for something else, Anyways I am here now and would just like to say thanks for a incredible post and a all round thrilling blog (I also love the theme/design), I don韙 have time to go through it all at the minute but I have bookmarked it and also included your RSS feeds, so when I have time I will be back to read a lot more, Please do keep up the great work.

By Prova a Adidas Neutro Originals Nizza Nero Giallo on 2015 07 20 - 08:41:30
From the entry 'Statism, the greater good and the big lie'.

I second Keith’s assertion that Mike Holt from Restore Australia is very much a fake. He bangs on about Halaal being a scam and money maker for Islam (and no I don’t support Halaal whatsoever), but makes excuses for its counterpart Kosher as being a somehow legitimate. Double standards? When I confronted him about this fact he went off on a convoluted tirade about Israel being some sort of “Bastion of Democracy” in the middle east…Really!, I will leave that one up to the readers to decide on. I found that MH came across as disingenuous to say the least.

By Citizen Scorn on 2015 07 19 - 07:33:43
From the entry 'Restore Australia!'.

Without doubt, TNR is one of the best, if not the best alternative news source on the net. Which doesn’t mean Herewood is always right. His job, I believe, is to present the facts as he sees them as an objectively as possible, without fear or favor. For this, he has my respect and support. But I believe he needs to be careful and to think a little deeper about the problems of “racism,” in Australia. He has labelled the Reclaim Australia Movement as racist. I’m wondering if his objectivity is a little weak on this point, a little without foundation.

Of course all political movements have its fringe groups and individuals. We make a distinction between, for example, a Muslim and a fundamentalist Muslim (Islamist), and by so doing we don’t claim that all Muslims are blood thirsty fanatics. If its good for the Muslims, then its good for RAM, which is bound to attract a few lunatics and real racists. But to brand the entire movement as “racist” is wrong; it is the same ploy that is used by the mainstream media and its left-wing, establishment Marxist boot boys.

One of the first things I noticed when i attended a RAM rally recently were the amount of non-white people in attendance, including Aboriginals. In fact the main banner of RAM contains an Australian flag and an Aboriginal flag. Speakers at their rallies have included Jews, Arabs, Indians, Aboriginals, Chinese and so on. What does this tell you? Is this really a fascist-Nazi-racist movement whose stated aim are the eradication and exclusion of other cultures, in place of some sort of Aussie white Reich, or is this just propaganda that is being propagated by the left for their own political interests. Consequently, we all know where the culmination of their politics have led, historically speaking, which are to the imposition of terror and dictatorships.

We can be thankful for small mercies, in terms of the Left, which today mostly tends to attract collectivists, establishmentarians and the privileged sons and daughters of the upper bourgeoisie, who seems to share one thing in common, nativity….

By Eugene on 2015 07 18 - 16:03:54
From the entry 'Dylann Roof: soldier in a new race war or just a pawn in the game?'.

Mike Holt from Restore Australia is very much a fake. He hasn’t even been citizen for but a few years. But, he makes out like he was born there. ALSO - this guy spent 30 years in Thailand working shady businesses. I would wager that his primary purpose in being an activist is that he wants to make money off selling merchandise.

By Keith on 2015 07 17 - 20:51:15
From the entry 'Restore Australia!'.

good to see you putting out some new shows heraward

freely the banana girl is to a certain extent a troll, as is her boyfriend durian rider. they have been trolling the fitness community on youtube for some time… and yes they are extreme but they are also trolls. They use their trolling to spread their message. currently, another dude called vegangains is trolling the fitness community as well.

i am a vegetarian, and it was seeing this documentary on the pork industry that started me on the vegetarian path. for anyone interested, its pretty off the charts disturbing and its australian as well. its pretty much made by dudes breaking into pork farms and filming what they find

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KArL5YjaL5U

Would the world be better if people cared where their food came from? probably, they might then care about other things too

do you become a better person if you dont eat meat? i feel like a better person mainly because animals aren’t being hurt because of me. i dont feel humans have to eat meat really… or at least not much. How can you watch that documentary on pork, know that that is pretty much whats going on and turn a blind eye to it? I think its basic empathy and just saying well ‘i like bacon so yeah’ is in my opinion wrong and i can see freleys point of view to an extent. In my opinion, at least these people believe in something. i see my money as my vote, henceforth im ethical as to what i do with it. free range eggs became mainstream for exactly this reason… although im pretty sure woolies and coles lobbied the state to change the definition of the word ‘free range’ at some point. I dont eat beef because the amount of resources that go into growing a cow are pretty crazy. Think about how much grass that cow needs to eat before it is harvested and how much space it requires. think of how many vegies you could grow in the same space with the same amount of water. lamb? comon, think about what your doing here… but that being said i think most vegans are total loons. People like freeley should be advocating for the destruction of lions and tigers, as lions and tigers murder other animals in truly horrific style. if we humans are smart enough to not harm animals, then we should be stopping the animals that harm other animals from existing. Freeley also kills birds when she flies in aeroplanes so she is a hypocrite.

feminism is one of the biggest problems in society today and although there is some valid historical basis to it, the liberation of the human female from their biology is in my opinion largely a product of the technological advance of humans. sufferagettes where never machine gunned on the streets, unlike the men that where drafted and sent off to war to die just a few years earlier. as technology has advanced, women have advanced as well, however now its going way too far and is pretty blatantly anti male in many respects. i view feminism in its modern context as a tool of the social marxists that really isnt doing society a great deal of good at this time. its screwing up gender dynamics and is wrecking women and men for each other. i see it as low frequency, lowest common denominator idiocy, just like a lot of the the race baiting ‘is this racist’ stuff getting around that is being perpetuated pretty much as a distraction, divide and conquer strategy by the power elite. idiots love this kind of bicker and beef… it would be funny if it wasn’t so serious

anyway

I agree with steven friar. gods a maniac

good show… keep making them

By r0Kb3B0p on 2015 07 14 - 21:05:32
From the entry 'Addictions, obsessions, fanaticisms and distractions'.

Really truthfull.

By OZE on 2015 07 07 - 16:56:36
From the entry 'Defending your personal health choices'.

Yeah sure authority aware.

By OZE on 2015 07 07 - 16:28:55
From the entry 'What is the future of Australia?'.

Stay tuned for more rules here as usually is the case!!!

By OZE on 2015 07 07 - 16:21:50
From the entry 'Mass media disinformation and brainwashing dissected'.

Almost two months since the last broadcast! How the hell can you expect people to donate when you don’t broadcast? Looks like the ship of truth has sprung a leak. This broadcast has been part of my life almost since its inception…it is one of the few alternative news sources that hasn’t gone off the deep end, by dilution credible information with crap e.g. Fairdinkum Radio and Info Wars…Pittard started FR with some incredibly interesting material, but then he flipped…Today he sounds like a fundamentalist preacher, the Christian equivalent to a Fanatical Islamist. As an atheist, I think he’s really ###### up a potentially good show. As for Info Wars, all they would have to do to improve is dump Alex Jones, what a shit-for-brains. I reckon Jones and Pittard are allowed to proliferate, because they’re so stupid and harmless. I suppose they have some entertainment value, and along with David Icke are living examples of how low the alternative media has sunk. Truth News Radio is, or should I say was, way ahead of them all ahead of them all in terms of credibility How sad that its come to this.

By Eugene on 2015 06 28 - 17:28:56
From the entry 'Introducing Internet.org: Mark Zuckerberg's free 'private' internet which will soon be rolled out to 4 billion+ people'.

Contrails dissipate quickly whereas chemtrails linger?

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