Contrails dissipate quickly whereas chemtrails linger?

Categories: [ Chemtrails ]

Contrails over London in 1944

Vapour trails left by British bombers on route to attack flying-bomb sites encircle the dome of St. Paul's Cathedral. London, 1944.

All those who passionately believe that "contrails dissipate quickly" whereas "chemtrails linger" and are deeply offended by the sceptical position that TNRA takes in regard to these claims, are free to "unlike" Truth News.

If, on the other hand, you would like to engage in rational debate, you're most welcome to do so.

However, please be advised that the information I have to impart may be shocking and difficult to grasp if you have been a "chemtrail alarmist" for a long time.

The often cited claim that "normal contrails dissipate quickly" is total bunkum.

There is not a shred of science to backup that claim. Nothing, nada, zippo!

Those who promote this idea are simply repeating something they read on a web page without checking sources.

CONTRAIL SCIENCE

For a contrail to form, suitable conditions must occur immediately behind a jet engine in the expanding engine exhaust plume. A contrail will form if, as the exhaust gases cool and mix with surrounding air, the humidity becomes high enough (or, equivalently, the air temperature becomes low enough) for liquid water to condense on particles and form liquid droplets. If the local air is cold enough, these newly formed droplets then freeze and form ice particles that make up a contrail.

Because the basic processes are very well understood, contrail formation for a given aircraft flight can be accurately predicted if atmospheric temperature and humidity conditions are known.

After the initial formation of ice, a contrail evolves in one of two ways. If the humidity is low, the contrail will be short-lived. Newly formed ice particles will quickly evaporate. The resulting contrail will extend only a short distance behind the aircraft. If the humidity is high, the contrail will be persistent. Newly formed ice particles will continue to grow in size by taking water from the surrounding atmosphere. The resulting line-shaped contrail extends for large distances behind an aircraft. Persistent contrails can last for hours while growing to several kilometers in width and 200 to 400 meters in height. Contrails spread because of air turbulence created by the passage of aircraft, differences in wind speed along the flight track, and possibly through effects of solar heating.

Thus, the surrounding atmosphere’s conditions determine to a large extent whether or not a contrail will form after an aircraft’s passage, and how it evolves. Other factors that influence contrail formation include engine fuel efficiency, which affects the amount of heat and water emitted in the exhaust plume.
- source

TNRA is informed by science and is not interested in propping up anyone's belief systems, and we don't apologise for that.

But, please, don't take it from me, speak to any meteorologist or any pilot and they'll tell you straight, that there is HUGE variation in the length and persistence of contrails. Sometimes they don't form at all, other times they form, but disspate quickly, other times they persist and spread out.

That's the facts folks, and it's been that way since planes first went up in the sky.

If you believe otherwise, I'm afraid you've been conned.

Forgive me if I seem rude or impatient on this topic, but every few months I come across a new wave of people who have been subjected to the same false propaganda about chemtrails, and I have to run the same arguments and cite the same articles over and over again. It does wear one's patience down.

Before making some kind of angry reply, I urge you to read this article and associated links. It's fairly detailed, and deals with most of the usual claims made by chemtrail alarmists.

Finally, let me qualify all this by saying that I do not doubt that geo-engineering programs exist, and that, indeed, some of the patented techniques discussed at international forums include the creation of artificial cirrus cloud. Does this, however, entitle you to conclude that every spreading contrail you see is an example of such geo-engineering?

Think about it.

Related Links

Comments

Please review the Terms of Service before reading or responding to comments.

There is a characteristic that is shared 1) by the geoengineers (and their BBC propagandists who attribute overall cooling characteristics to aircraft emissions and therefore propose solar radiation management, and 2) the climate change activists and the European Union officials benefiting from their activism against the warming effect of aircraft emissions. Both of these groups have an ideology that IS MAKING MONEY FOR THEM. And it doesn’t matter which tendency is predominant. This is something for taxpayers to argue about.

Do you care which tendency is predominant Josh???

By Wayne Hall on 2012 09 20 - 22:44:10

Wayne Hall,

you brought up the video that you now call “ridiculous” as an introduction to the question about carbon tax for air travel.

To discuss this question, the net impact of jet planes (contrails and emissions) is obviously central.

Then I brought up information that says the net cooling effect of contrails alone is not yet established.

Do you have scientific arguments contradicting this? I’m willing to listen.

Your “interest group” issue is subordinated. Facts first.

About dogma (again!):

Demanding evidence for extraordinary claims is not dogmatic.

Refusing to discuss one own’s extraordinary claim is dogmatic.

By Josh on 2012 09 21 - 14:36:54

My question about a carbon tax for air travel, predicated on the assumption that aviation contributes to a rise in global temperatures, was merely intended to be counterposed to equally well-publicized ideas for utilizing air travel to lower global temperatures.

These are conflicting agendas but this apparently doesn’t matter, because the lobbyists for them don’t talk to each other, (in public). They each talk to their own section of the public, whom they attempt to mobilize behind their respective proposals, which cost and/or will cost money.

You say that the net cooling effect of contrails alone is not yet established. The geoengineering lobby says the opposite. Why do you ask me to take sides with them against “you”? I am not on their side.

The facts are for scientists to sort out. Not taxpayers. A legitimate demand for taxpayers is for government to get its act together and put together an internally coherent account of a need that can plausibly justify demands for taxpayers’ money.

If today’s political system cannot offer that, then clearly what is needed is an alternative political system, which can then seek a mandate.

My “extraordinary claim” did not have anything to do one side or the other of the question of whether contrails raise of lower temperatures. I merely pointed out that both viewpoints are being put forward and securing and/or demanding funding.

I asked you to say (as a taxpayer, by implication) if you care about which of these projects your money will be used to fund. The implication of your position is that you would prefer to pay a carbon tax rather than fund solar radiation management.

If this is the case what are you doing to prevent your money going towards funding solar radiation management?

Denying that it is occurring? Does that help you to stop it, if it needs to be stopped?

By Wayne Hall on 2012 09 21 - 15:02:49

Wayne Hall said:

“My question [...] was merely intended to be counterposed to equally well-publicized ideas for utilizing air travel to lower global temperatures.”

Well, why didn’t you say so? At first I thought it was one of your less off-topic questions.

I’m not interested in talking about all sorts of lobby groups for ideas and proposals of any kind. Those will always be around. Global warming is established from a scientific perspective.

I’m interested in evidence for intentional geo-engineering going on right now. Aren’t you?

By Josh on 2012 09 21 - 15:22:40

It seems to me that the discussion that should be going on here is between you and Hereward Fenton on global warming.

Unless he is as uninterested in your ideas on the reality of global warming as I am in your ideas on the reality of geoengineering.

Would you like to start another thread, so that I can watch you two arguing instead of arguing with both of you myself?

By Wayne Hall on 2012 09 21 - 15:45:00

You see, once the inquisitor commits himself to a viewpoint of his own, he becomes vulnerable.

By Wayne.Hall on 2012 09 21 - 19:05:19

http://spraci.info/display/michael_md/191282

By Wayne Hall on 2012 09 26 - 00:46:28

This research reported a 19% increase in precipitation for those storms that were seeded. So whatever TNRA calls this nasty little scientific FACT is irrelevant. THE FACT IS HERE IN AUSTRALIA THE CSIRO & SNOWY HYDRO are using technology managed by the royal society to place chemicals into the atmosphere via aircraft and other means to manipulate the weather. So spend all the time you want arguing about the symantics of the non provable differences between contrails and chemtrails as it’s proven by your actions and pre-conceived statements you don’t want an informed debate on this topic you just wanted to shut reasonable enquiry down. P.S. Blocking and banning people who differ in opinion to you seems a contradiction of the recent request to grow the TNRA audience. http://www.snowyhydro.com.au/water/cloud-seeding/
The Snowy Mountains Cloud Seeding Trial Act 2004 (NSW) (the “Act”) authorises Snowy Hydro Limited (“Snowy Hydro”) to undertake the Snowy Precipitation Enhancement Research Project (“SPERP”) over the Snowy Mountains region of NSW. This trial has now increased in area and is now ongoing until 2015. http://www.snowyhydro.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/SPERPAnnualReport2009MayEXESUMMARY.pdf So TNRA why ot use your own advice and stop looking at the skies and starting looking at the EVIDENCE.

By Winston Smith on 2012 10 03 - 12:45:59

Who has been blocked and banned??? Is TNRA the Oz 911 Truth Movement?

By Wayne Hall on 2012 10 03 - 13:09:43

While some argue about what were seeing others are are exposing what were not seeing as is evident from the followin PEER REVIEWED SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE “…evidence that cloud seeding has increased snowfall in the target area under defined weather and operating conditions”. http://www.snowyhydro.com.au/wpcontent/uploads/2011/12/CS_Flyer_2011_web.pdf And while the “EXPERTS” deny any adverse effects on our enviroment, they must be laughing at us when they see arguments over the disinformation surrounding the differences between chemtrails and contrails. http://www.nrc.nsw.gov.au/Workwedo/Cloudseeding.aspx

By Winston Smith on 2012 10 03 - 13:38:49

Wayne when this topic was 1st mentioned by TNRA several “online associates” were banned and had comments removed from this discussion. Oh the LULZ im having when I see this topic that TNRA has tried to squash on several occasions has resulted in several hundred comments on this thread alone, while topics TNRA would love some traction for are unable to garnish a handfull of comments. TNRA is not the truth movement but they think they have a monolopy on the truth and what is acceptable topics of discssion.

By Winston Smith on 2012 10 03 - 13:48:02

Winston Smith,

how is cloud seeding related to the contrail/chemtrail discussion?

By Josh on 2012 10 03 - 13:51:48

Here is Josh muscling in again to try and get us talking on the only subject he knows how to discuss. Of course the EXPERTS are laughing at people who want to keep chewing over the nonsense contrails/chemtrails debate they themselves started fifteen years ago, more or less at the same time they started large-scale spraying. One of the two nonsense debates, because there is the mainstream climate change debate also. Josh and Hereward seem to be on opposite sides in that debate, but evidently think that wanking forever about contrails/chemtrails is more important than getting their own act together on the subject of climate.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 10 03 - 14:07:48

Wayne Hall said:

(lots of words, no substance)

Winston Smith seems to mix up cloud seeding - which is known since around 1940 - with chemtrails and geoengineering.

Nobody disputes that cloud seeding is done and that it may be effective.

Winston goes on to quote “peer reviewed” (i.e. reviewed by experts) research, only to ridicule other experts not backing his opinion in the very same sentence.

Am I the only one to see a contradiction here?

By Josh on 2012 10 03 - 14:28:16

Well said Wayne. I didnt even want to dignify Josh’s question how is cloud seeding related to the contrail/chemtrail discussion? with a response. Its very obvious that aircraft trails whatever lable we attach are man made and have an impact on our enviroment. Cloud seeding is a scientifically proven activity and its been proven that some cloud seeding implementation techniques result in trails from aircraft. Josh while we are asking silly questions can you explain how a twin jet aircraft can result in 4 vapour trails reglardless of what name TNRA use to describe them.

By Winston Smith on 2012 10 03 - 14:30:42

Winston Smith,

do you have a picture or video link of what you describe?

By Josh on 2012 10 03 - 15:02:42

Have the debunkers developed plausible counterarguments to befuddle the dills on this one too Josh??? Go and check it out with your mates if you don’t know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GycKZJ44RIg

By Wayne Hall on 2012 10 05 - 11:11:59

I wonder if there are any examples of debunkers undergoing crises of conscience???? I have seen it happen with some of the former entourage of Jay Reynolds, who turned on him at one point like a pack of dogs. But it didn’t seem to result in them then becoming normal human beings. The twisted element was still there.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 10 05 - 11:16:36

http://www.nocarbontax.com.au/2012/05/a-bit-of-climate-fun-madness-from-the-eu/comment-page-1/ scroll down

By Wayne Hall on 2012 10 05 - 12:12:35

Wayne Hall,

once again Google was helpful.

When flight TAY274B arrived in Europe, its ‘counterpart’ was already on the way down to Africa - with the same flight number.

This leads to errors in the flight path display on flightradar24.

You can play back the historical paths by entering the time and the flight number. The zig zag starts around 21:00 UTC, and if you keep on playing, it moves southward again, all the way to Africa.

See this forum post on flightradar24:
http://forum.flightradar24.com/threads/3298-Multiple-aircraft-with-the-same-flight-number

By Josh on 2012 10 05 - 13:50:24

Page 19 of 55 pages ‹ First < 17 18 19 20 21 > Last ›

RECLAIM AUSTRALIA IS DOOMED

Although I agree with many of their ideas, the forces reigned against RAM are too great, violent, statist and reactionary for them to remain a non-political, broad based, multi-ethnic, community protest group for much longer. The Left and their Antifa nihilist fellow travelers are already pushing them towards the extreme Right, by calling them racists and Islamophobes and so on. Whilst the extreme Right have aligned themselves with RAM. With fascists of the Left and Right pressuring them they will not be able to remain beyond the Left-Right divide and will inevitably move to the Right - the extreme Right. Which is already happening. A development which will alienate decent Australians of all ethnic backgrounds many of whom currently support them.

The RAM leadership have already established open alliances with the Patriotic Front (the ape in the photograph is a Patriot Front supporter at a recent Richmond demonstration) Australia First and Golden Dawn, a Greek neo-Nazi party. Members of these collectivist groups are currently attending RAM demonstrations all over Australia.

There is a real need in Australia to establish a political movement beyond the Left-Right divide and their vested interests, a movement that questions the current direction Australia is heading i.e. the direction the Left/Right and their extremes would like to take it; that questions the efficacy of state sponsored multiculturalism, as opposed to a proper, non-discriminatory immigration policy; that questions the validity of political correctness; that is politically neutral, anti-war and pro environment; that is opposed to all collectivists ideologies (fascisms of the Left and Right); that would dismantle the power pyramids of corporations and banks and their ability to impact on government; that would dissolve all anti-terror laws and all laws that impose on the rights and freedom of the individual and the people.

(The ape in the photograph is a Patriot Front supporter at a recent Richmond demonstration)

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/reclaim-australia-rally-set-for-sydney-on-sunday-20150718-gifb9s.html

http://australiafirstparty.net/news/reclaiming-australia-queensland-senate-campaign/

By Eugene Donnini on 2015 07 26 - 15:36:56
From the entry 'Dylann Roof: soldier in a new race war or just a pawn in the game?'.

Hello there I am so thrilled I found your web site, I really found you by error, while I was searching on Digg for something else, Anyways I am here now and would just like to say thanks for a incredible post and a all round thrilling blog (I also love the theme/design), I don韙 have time to go through it all at the minute but I have bookmarked it and also included your RSS feeds, so when I have time I will be back to read a lot more, Please do keep up the great work.

By Prova a Adidas Neutro Originals Nizza Nero Giallo on 2015 07 20 - 08:41:30
From the entry 'Statism, the greater good and the big lie'.

I second Keith’s assertion that Mike Holt from Restore Australia is very much a fake. He bangs on about Halaal being a scam and money maker for Islam (and no I don’t support Halaal whatsoever), but makes excuses for its counterpart Kosher as being a somehow legitimate. Double standards? When I confronted him about this fact he went off on a convoluted tirade about Israel being some sort of “Bastion of Democracy” in the middle east…Really!, I will leave that one up to the readers to decide on. I found that MH came across as disingenuous to say the least.

By Citizen Scorn on 2015 07 19 - 07:33:43
From the entry 'Restore Australia!'.

Without doubt, TNR is one of the best, if not the best alternative news source on the net. Which doesn’t mean Herewood is always right. His job, I believe, is to present the facts as he sees them as an objectively as possible, without fear or favor. For this, he has my respect and support. But I believe he needs to be careful and to think a little deeper about the problems of “racism,” in Australia. He has labelled the Reclaim Australia Movement as racist. I’m wondering if his objectivity is a little weak on this point, a little without foundation.

Of course all political movements have its fringe groups and individuals. We make a distinction between, for example, a Muslim and a fundamentalist Muslim (Islamist), and by so doing we don’t claim that all Muslims are blood thirsty fanatics. If its good for the Muslims, then its good for RAM, which is bound to attract a few lunatics and real racists. But to brand the entire movement as “racist” is wrong; it is the same ploy that is used by the mainstream media and its left-wing, establishment Marxist boot boys.

One of the first things I noticed when i attended a RAM rally recently were the amount of non-white people in attendance, including Aboriginals. In fact the main banner of RAM contains an Australian flag and an Aboriginal flag. Speakers at their rallies have included Jews, Arabs, Indians, Aboriginals, Chinese and so on. What does this tell you? Is this really a fascist-Nazi-racist movement whose stated aim are the eradication and exclusion of other cultures, in place of some sort of Aussie white Reich, or is this just propaganda that is being propagated by the left for their own political interests. Consequently, we all know where the culmination of their politics have led, historically speaking, which are to the imposition of terror and dictatorships.

We can be thankful for small mercies, in terms of the Left, which today mostly tends to attract collectivists, establishmentarians and the privileged sons and daughters of the upper bourgeoisie, who seems to share one thing in common, nativity….

By Eugene on 2015 07 18 - 16:03:54
From the entry 'Dylann Roof: soldier in a new race war or just a pawn in the game?'.

Mike Holt from Restore Australia is very much a fake. He hasn’t even been citizen for but a few years. But, he makes out like he was born there. ALSO - this guy spent 30 years in Thailand working shady businesses. I would wager that his primary purpose in being an activist is that he wants to make money off selling merchandise.

By Keith on 2015 07 17 - 20:51:15
From the entry 'Restore Australia!'.

good to see you putting out some new shows heraward

freely the banana girl is to a certain extent a troll, as is her boyfriend durian rider. they have been trolling the fitness community on youtube for some time… and yes they are extreme but they are also trolls. They use their trolling to spread their message. currently, another dude called vegangains is trolling the fitness community as well.

i am a vegetarian, and it was seeing this documentary on the pork industry that started me on the vegetarian path. for anyone interested, its pretty off the charts disturbing and its australian as well. its pretty much made by dudes breaking into pork farms and filming what they find

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KArL5YjaL5U

Would the world be better if people cared where their food came from? probably, they might then care about other things too

do you become a better person if you dont eat meat? i feel like a better person mainly because animals aren’t being hurt because of me. i dont feel humans have to eat meat really… or at least not much. How can you watch that documentary on pork, know that that is pretty much whats going on and turn a blind eye to it? I think its basic empathy and just saying well ‘i like bacon so yeah’ is in my opinion wrong and i can see freleys point of view to an extent. In my opinion, at least these people believe in something. i see my money as my vote, henceforth im ethical as to what i do with it. free range eggs became mainstream for exactly this reason… although im pretty sure woolies and coles lobbied the state to change the definition of the word ‘free range’ at some point. I dont eat beef because the amount of resources that go into growing a cow are pretty crazy. Think about how much grass that cow needs to eat before it is harvested and how much space it requires. think of how many vegies you could grow in the same space with the same amount of water. lamb? comon, think about what your doing here… but that being said i think most vegans are total loons. People like freeley should be advocating for the destruction of lions and tigers, as lions and tigers murder other animals in truly horrific style. if we humans are smart enough to not harm animals, then we should be stopping the animals that harm other animals from existing. Freeley also kills birds when she flies in aeroplanes so she is a hypocrite.

feminism is one of the biggest problems in society today and although there is some valid historical basis to it, the liberation of the human female from their biology is in my opinion largely a product of the technological advance of humans. sufferagettes where never machine gunned on the streets, unlike the men that where drafted and sent off to war to die just a few years earlier. as technology has advanced, women have advanced as well, however now its going way too far and is pretty blatantly anti male in many respects. i view feminism in its modern context as a tool of the social marxists that really isnt doing society a great deal of good at this time. its screwing up gender dynamics and is wrecking women and men for each other. i see it as low frequency, lowest common denominator idiocy, just like a lot of the the race baiting ‘is this racist’ stuff getting around that is being perpetuated pretty much as a distraction, divide and conquer strategy by the power elite. idiots love this kind of bicker and beef… it would be funny if it wasn’t so serious

anyway

I agree with steven friar. gods a maniac

good show… keep making them

By r0Kb3B0p on 2015 07 14 - 21:05:32
From the entry 'Addictions, obsessions, fanaticisms and distractions'.

Really truthfull.

By OZE on 2015 07 07 - 16:56:36
From the entry 'Defending your personal health choices'.

Yeah sure authority aware.

By OZE on 2015 07 07 - 16:28:55
From the entry 'What is the future of Australia?'.

Stay tuned for more rules here as usually is the case!!!

By OZE on 2015 07 07 - 16:21:50
From the entry 'Mass media disinformation and brainwashing dissected'.

Almost two months since the last broadcast! How the hell can you expect people to donate when you don’t broadcast? Looks like the ship of truth has sprung a leak. This broadcast has been part of my life almost since its inception…it is one of the few alternative news sources that hasn’t gone off the deep end, by dilution credible information with crap e.g. Fairdinkum Radio and Info Wars…Pittard started FR with some incredibly interesting material, but then he flipped…Today he sounds like a fundamentalist preacher, the Christian equivalent to a Fanatical Islamist. As an atheist, I think he’s really ###### up a potentially good show. As for Info Wars, all they would have to do to improve is dump Alex Jones, what a shit-for-brains. I reckon Jones and Pittard are allowed to proliferate, because they’re so stupid and harmless. I suppose they have some entertainment value, and along with David Icke are living examples of how low the alternative media has sunk. Truth News Radio is, or should I say was, way ahead of them all ahead of them all in terms of credibility How sad that its come to this.

By Eugene on 2015 06 28 - 17:28:56
From the entry 'Introducing Internet.org: Mark Zuckerberg's free 'private' internet which will soon be rolled out to 4 billion+ people'.

Contrails dissipate quickly whereas chemtrails linger?

Comments

Recent Comments

Archives

Categories